Hi all

Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
electronic one?

I'm the navigator on my dad's flights

Thanks

Nigel Reeves

> Hi all
>
> Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
> electronic one?
>

> Nigel Reeves

The plastic/metal one will be more fun, always work and let you see
how the solution to drift and time calculations arise. It will also
develop your skills in navigation. You will be developing the skills
that all the great aviators used when they made pioneering flights.
Electronic calculators are boring. By the way, in NZ we are not
allowed to use electronic calculators for our piloting exams ! I think
its great that your dad is trusting your skills in navigation to help
him fly cross country.

Cheers Mark.

Rule 1: ALWAYS TRUST YOUR GPS (IF YOU HAVE ONE). The same rule applies
out here in South Africa, But it is always useful to know.

Thanks

Nigel Reeves

wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
> electronic one?

I have and use both.

I enjoy using the metal version for wind problems, as it's kind of fun.
The calculator is my preference for W/B, rate of climb or descent, and
density altitude calculations, and general flight planning away from a
computer. The calculator is my hands-down favorite for tests.

Nowadays, I do most of my actual time / fuel / distance planning right
in DUATS or the AOPA planner. I have GPS and DME available in the
airplane, so I don't use an E6B much in flight, as I can easily compare
estimated conditions to actual with no calculations.

Bottom line? The electronic version rides in my bag and the metal one
is on my desk at home.

wrote:
>
> Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
> electronic one?

If you can only get one, I would recommend a small metal E6B (e.g.
http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/523).

The electronic version is much easier to use, but the metal one always
works. It's unlikely it will ever break and it's batteries will never
run down. Additionally, for some problems, you get a better idea of
what's going on with a mechanical version.

The mechanical versions run about US$25 for a decent one (there are
cheaper ones, but don't waste your money).

The electronic versions run about US$75 for a good one. And if you're
going to spend the money on an electronic version, spend it on a good
one that you'll be happy with.

The electronic version will also be more accurate, but don't let that
fool you. It won't make your flight any more accurate. Factors like
inaccurate winds aloft forecasts or measuring error when laying out your
course on the sectional add a lot more error than the small amount of
error you will get from trying to read between the marks on the E6B. So
don't let that be a factor in your decision making.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame >
## CP-ASEL-IA, CFI-A, AGI
## <insert tail number here>
## KHAO, KISZ
"Software Independent: Won't work with any software."

On Jul 27, 6:59 am, "Mark T. Dame" > wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
> > electronic one?
>
> If you can only get one, I would recommend a small metal E6B (e.g.http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/523).
>
> The electronic version is much easier to use, but the metal one always
> works. It's unlikely it will ever break and it's batteries will never
> run down. Additionally, for some problems, you get a better idea of
> what's going on with a mechanical version.

I still carry my paper one (although my GPS actually has one built in
as well). Its interesting that you point out that the electronic ones
are easier to use. I've not found that to be the case. In fact, when a
student arrives for flight training with me and they pull out the
electronic E6B, I cring a bit. I have yet to see any student who can
pull out their electronic E6B in flight, after I've given them a
diversion or something, and do anything other than just fiddle with
it. Even when they do come up with the answer it takes forever. I'm
not going to be able to become an expert on every electronic E6B out
there but when I've looked at what my students show up with I find
that I cannot understand how to use it without spending an hour or so
with the manual.
However, I can show a student how to calculate most of what they need
to be able to do with the manual E6B in about 15 minutes.

-Robert, CFII

Mark T. Dame wrote:
>
> The electronic version will also be more accurate, but don't let that
> fool you. It won't make your flight any more accurate.

Excellent point.

I always get a kick out of airspeed or fuel requirements on my
calculator to the tenth or hundredth. If a few tenths of a gallon of
usable fuel, or a tenth of a knot, make a difference on my flight, I
need to slap myself.

On 2007-07-27 00:56:10 -0700, "
> said:

> Hi all
>
> Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
> electronic one?

I like the metal ones. The plastic E6Bs are junk. The metal E6B takes a
little longer to learn than an electronic one, but not much. Once you
learn to use it, it is much faster than the electronic versions.
Besides, the electronic versions pretend to a level of accuracy they
really do not have. It gets silly when you see readouts down to a
second either way. They remind me of the old saw "Measure it with a
calipers, mark it with a grease pencil, cut it with an axe."


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Jul 27, 3:56 am, " >
wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
> electronic one?
>
> I'm the navigator on my dad's flights
>
> Thanks
>
> Nigel Reeves


Is this for checkride/exam purposes or for real flying? I have not
used the E6B in over ten years for anthing. For in-flight purposes you
should be able to mentally estimate most of the numbers. For ground
planning, use a computer.

I haven't used an E6B since I took delivery on my Garmin 296. I'm sure
that proves me terribly lacking in something or other, but there it
is!

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com

"Cubdriver" <usenet AT danford DOT net> wrote in message
...
>
> I haven't used an E6B since I took delivery on my Garmin 296. I'm sure
> that proves me terribly lacking in something or other, but there it
> is!

I haven't used one since I had a LORAN installed in my aircraft.

"Airbus" > wrote in message ...
> If you really want to hone your skills, try using mental calculations. In
> much of Europe the E6-B's are little known or used, but student pilots are
> encouraged to learn simple mental calculations to solve
> speed/distance/time and wind correction problems.
>
> Here's a French link:
> http://reseau.xplane.free.fr/formules/formules.html
>
> Other contributors here certainly know English language links to the same
> stuff. No need to be a math whiz - memorizing a few formulae will allow
> you to do this stuff quickly in your head.
>
> European instructors will tell you that using a calculator, mechanical or
> electronic, is too much of a head-down exercise for VFR flight, and
> represents a danger. . .
>
>

Google:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://reseau.xplane.free.fr/formules/formules.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DRECUEIL%2BDE%2BFORMULES%2BMATHEMATIQU ES%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2005-02,GGLD:en

http://tinyurl.com/3y5d79

Nigel

E6B doesn't run out of batteries :o)

My E6B is over 35 years old and I work it like I did years ago.

Have an electronic one my wife bought me and never use.

Besides E6B will keep you busy while your dad flies.

Big John
**********************************************88

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:56:10 -0700, "
> wrote:

>Hi all
>
>Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
>electronic one?
>
>I'm the navigator on my dad's flights
>
>Thanks
>
>Nigel Reeves

"Airbus" > wrote in message ...
> Here is an English sentence :
>
> Four score and seven years ago, our Fathers set forth on this continent a new
> nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are
> created equal.
>
> Translated to German via AltaVista BabelFish:
>
> Vor vier Kerbe und sieben Jahren, unsere Väter legen auf diesem Kontinent eine
> neue Nation fest, begriffen in der Freiheit, und der Angelegenheit eingeweiht,
> daß alle Männer verursachtes Gleichgestelltes sind.
>
> And back to English :
>
> Before four notch and seven years, our fathers specify a new nation on this
> continent, understood in the liberty, and the affair inaugurated that all men
> are caused on an equal footing.
>
> And this is a simple example, using English and German - which are similar
> languages! When you go further - English and Korean, for example, you get this
> :
>
>
> It sleeps equally all men create and before 87 years, our father in this
> continent is thought inside freedom, that, it gives it departs in proposition
> and the new nation.
>
> So much for Internet translations . . .
>
>

Still fun though, and most can get the gist of it. Certainly better than 10 years ago...

And also, most do not go from a known language, to unknown, and back to known.

If you really want to hone your skills, try using mental calculations. In
much of Europe the E6-B's are little known or used, but student pilots are
encouraged to learn simple mental calculations to solve
speed/distance/time and wind correction problems.

Here's a French link:
http://reseau.xplane.free.fr/formules/formules.html

Other contributors here certainly know English language links to the same
stuff. No need to be a math whiz - memorizing a few formulae will allow
you to do this stuff quickly in your head.

European instructors will tell you that using a calculator, mechanical or
electronic, is too much of a head-down exercise for VFR flight, and
represents a danger. . .

Here is an English sentence :

Four score and seven years ago, our Fathers set forth on this continent a new
nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are
created equal.

Translated to German via AltaVista BabelFish:

Vor vier Kerbe und sieben Jahren, unsere Väter legen auf diesem Kontinent eine
neue Nation fest, begriffen in der Freiheit, und der Angelegenheit eingeweiht,
daß alle Männer verursachtes Gleichgestelltes sind.

And back to English :

Before four notch and seven years, our fathers specify a new nation on this
continent, understood in the liberty, and the affair inaugurated that all men
are caused on an equal footing.

And this is a simple example, using English and German - which are similar
languages! When you go further - English and Korean, for example, you get this
:


It sleeps equally all men create and before 87 years, our father in this
continent is thought inside freedom, that, it gives it departs in proposition
and the new nation.

So much for Internet translations . . .

" > wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Whats best for simplicity and price? The Metal/Plastic E6B or the
> electronic one?

I have an E6B emulator that I run on my computer. It is not a digital E6B
calculator, but rather a computer program that displays the various rings
and numbers that I can then use a mouse to rotate. I have used it to
navigate around the world.

In article >,
says...
>

>> So much for Internet translations . . .
>>
>>
>
>Still fun though, and most can get the gist of it. Certainly better than 10
years ago...
>
>And also, most do not go from a known language, to unknown, and back to known.
>
>
>


Fun, I agree.
It will get in the way though in a context like aviation, where words have
highly specific meanings. The attentive reader will probably understand that
speed indications in "nodes" are referring to "knots" (though a doubt may
linger) but on encountering the expression "clean speed" the reader may think
we are talking about flaps and gear positions, and not realize the article is
simply referring to TAS . . .

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On Jul 27, 6:59 am, "Mark T. Dame" > wrote:
>>
>> The electronic version is much easier to use, but the metal one always
>> works. It's unlikely it will ever break and it's batteries will never
>> run down. Additionally, for some problems, you get a better idea of
>> what's going on with a mechanical version.
>
> I still carry my paper one (although my GPS actually has one built in
> as well). Its interesting that you point out that the electronic ones
> are easier to use. I've not found that to be the case. In fact, when a
> student arrives for flight training with me and they pull out the
> electronic E6B, I cring a bit. I have yet to see any student who can
> pull out their electronic E6B in flight, after I've given them a
> diversion or something, and do anything other than just fiddle with
> it.

OK, to clarify, once you learn how to use it, the electronic one is
easier to use. Bear in mind that I learned on a mechanical one and
didn't get an electronic version until I started working on my
commercial ticket. By then, I well understood what was going on "under
the hood". As I pointed out, for some problems, the mechanical version
is easier to understand.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame >
## CP-ASEL-IA, CFI-A, AGI
## <insert tail number here>
## KHAO, KISZ
"And that's all I have to say about that."
-- Forrest Gump